Curse

Whiskeyjack · Feb 05, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

People who use Ursan are either scrubs or just lazy imo. I have more or less stopped caring about ursan, i still despise the skill and all it represent's but I simply dont use it, nor will i party with anyone who does. What really concern's me though is how Anet have discarded the whole skill>time played idea which is what attracted me to GW in the first place. I will think very carefully before buying GW2 because of that.

Abedeus · Feb 06, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

I won't play PvE until they nerf Ursan. Someone said that we don't have to use ursans to play in PuGs? Oh, rly. Look at the screenshot that I just took.

90% of pugs are Ursans. And if that elementalist looks for ursanway, it's 96%. Can't you understand, it's like a parasite? Either you agree to being assimilated by it, or you die from boredom and rejection. Parasites should be KILLED!

skanvak · Feb 06, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Though I agree with you, the same thing is true from the obsidian tank "silly" build (I play a W to fight not to stay still). The difference is that Ursan is less tiedous to play and marginally mor fun.

Abedeus · Feb 06, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Oh, yeah. Too bad that there are E/W tanks, E/D, W/E and R/E obsi's, BiP's or SS necros, fast cast nukers WERE allowed into the team, normal nukers too, splinter barragers... Now only ursan. It replaced 9 characters -.- I mean come on, out of 291 elites, Ursan is better than 289 non-PvE-only elites. The 2 remaining are Healer's Boon and LoD.

And MORE FUN? Wow, you must be bad at this game. You mean that pressing 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 3 -> 2 -> 1 -> 2 -> 1 and so on is FUN? Or sitting in front of screen for 24/7 grinding titles till you get the tunnel syndrome (WoW episode in South Park - that pain in wrist, which occurs after over fatiguing it). Real fun.

V Hope you are being sarcastic.

Alex the Great · Feb 06, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

I agree, ursan is gay, but it dosen't affect us so i'm gonna stfu

skanvak · Feb 08, 2008, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Abedeus, tanking in obsi without attacking is dull, at least in ursan I attack that why it is MARGINALLY more fun for me in W. I want to kill monster, that's fun. Obsi does not kill that's not fun, bottom line.

Now, I agree this statement "out of 291 elites, Ursan is better than 289 non-PvE-only elites". So don't confuse the side I am in.

Div · Feb 08, 2008, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by skanvak

Abedeus, tanking in obsi without attacking is dull, at least in ursan I attack that why it is MARGINALLY more fun for me in W. I want to kill monster, that's fun. Obsi does not kill that's not fun, bottom line.

We've never needed a obsidian tank for DoA, so I don't see what's with everyone's obsession thinking they need one. If anything, ursanway proves that you don't need a supertank to do these zones. But yeah, ursan's pretty lame. But if it gets nerfed, 100000 noobs will start crying about how they suck again because they can't abuse an instawin skill.

shru · Feb 08, 2008, 11:11 AM // 11:11

I've said this before and I'll say it again... Ursan is the "IWAY" of PvE. It's easy to use, takes little coordination, and is extreamly easy to form a group. The only areas or instances ursan trumps a balanced or trinity build is when you're PUGing. And tbh, if I ever decided to PUG again (I hope it never comes to that), I'd actualy prefer to play Ursan, as it's virtualy idiot proof.
Ursan is going to be played untill it's nerfed the hell into the ground, then people aregoing to continue playing it unti'll GW2 comes out.
There is an easy way to avoid ursan though; FIND A RED ENGINE GORED PVE GUILD, QUIT PUGING LIKE DUMBASS RED ENGINE GORED-TARDS, AND QUIT RED ENGINE GORED QQing.

Abedeus · Feb 08, 2008, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Sure Ursan is the IWAY. But people didn't need to play IWAY. They had at least 10 other builds for each profession.

I am in a PvE Guild, in the biggest PvE alliance in Poland. And guess what, everyone plays ONLY ursan. Why? Because it's faster to find people to it. I mean - come on! In IWAY you had to know how to play a paragon, warrior or any class from earlier versions of the build. With ursan you must know how to spam skills (no-energy skills... worse than signets, as there is only counter in Diversion and other skill-disabling skills) or... spam monk skills. But with each party member with at least 60+20 (only r10's are taken to pugs...) + 8/16 = 88/96 AL and above 600 hp, it's REALLY easy to heal.

Akolo · Feb 08, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

if everyone in your guild plays ursan.. well...

enough said

misguiding_prophet · Feb 08, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Ursan will get nerfed, if it hasnt already. My opinion is, that its a good farming tool. I am title grinding, but the drops compensate for the tedious runs and I get more practice with the 2 week old monk that I made.

I mean even the dude/dudette who started this topic might have already tried ursan, if they havent then they have spoken out of sheer ignorance. Sure its simple, but one can obtain great pleasure from simplistic builds. Some of the best builds in the game are simple.

Missions are best done with friends and guildies- enuff said. Those who bitch about pugs/ ursan centered pugs, need to analyze again why they couldnt find "friends" or guildies to join them in the first place lolz

blockkiller · Feb 09, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

what makes ursan that good anyway, the effect are easy made. en a regular build does more damage so

Abedeus · Feb 09, 2008, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Really wanna know?
+20 armor, making everyone at least as hard as a paragon, + a shield, you can get +16 since you need only Ursan Blessing.
+200 hp...
Mass knockdown, spike damage, AoE weakness, speed boost...

I mean come on - There can't, I'm saying there CAN'T be a skill that gives so much and requires so little. A quick quest, 30-40 minutes and a lot of grind.

blockkiller · Feb 09, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

u have last norn rank?

blockkiller · Feb 09, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Really wanna know?
There can't, I'm saying there CAN'T be a skill that gives so much and requires so little.d.

yes but eight skills can do that

blockkiller · Feb 09, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

ursan really is not good for the creativity of the players, u don't have to think about ur build just use ursan. the only thing that is necessairy is some monks. while without people have to think about teams with different proffesions. why would u pick your proffesion now, just take ursan, why would u buy skills just get ursan, why would u think just get ursan.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 09, 2008, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Abedeus · Feb 09, 2008, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by blockkiller

u have last norn rank?

No, I have life. But on pugs, they take ONLY r10 ursans.

Oh, and there is no build that will give +20 armor, +200 hp (UNREMOVABLE, so don't use enchantments, stances or things that can be interrupted), elementalist-like damage, uses 0 energy, 0 adrenaline and can roll through PvE with ease. Oh, and there is no build that can MAINTAIN those bonuses.

blockkiller, next time no need for 3 posts...

Hanok Odbrook · Feb 09, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Well, in the dozens of threads and hundreds of pages devoted to this topic in the last eight months, let's see if I can make a summary of the issues here:

1) UB takes away the challenge of "elite" areas.
Conclusion - False. UB has no effect on the difficulty level in any area of this game. The only affect UB has is one's own perceived level of difficulty while exploring an area. A team of Ursans running an instance of DoA cannot affect the perceived difficulty of a balanced team running another instance of DoA at the exact same time. UB simply requires less time and energy spent forming a balanced team to achieve a similar level of perceived difficulty - just as a balanced team will have a perceived level of difficulty that makes the area seem easier than an unbalanced team will.

2) UB hurts the status and price of high end items.
Conclusion - False. UB has no more effect on prices than any other cookie cutter farming build. The entire idea of CC builds is to create a character that can farm an area the quickest and easiest. All UB does is allow someone to use a CC without having to consult Guildwiki. After all, UB has no affect on the prices of Zaishen Keys; it has no affect on the prices of the mini-pig or mini-rat, yet already players are talking about waiting until the prices of these items drop before they buy them. The only effect on pricing of high end items are the farmers themselves. In the GW supply and demand economy over the last three years, prices have always dropped because the farmers have always been able increase the supply faster than the demand.

In regards to the perceived status of these items, again the only effect on them are the players who sell them to other players. The only way to maintain an "elite" status for elite items is to prevent the trade or selling of them to players who did not actually complete the objectives required to obtain them. So long as a complete noob who has never visited an elite outpost, let alone made an attempt at the area can simply buy what he wants, the status of these items will continue to drop the same as the prices.

3) UB has killed the PUG.
Conclusion - False. The PUG has been long since dead before UB and before Heroes - class discrimination and noob abuse was what killed the PUG. Both Heroes and UB have actually allowed players previously shunned to be able to form their own PUGs. The screen shot provided by Abedeus proves the point. How many players were in DoA prior to UB? From what I have heard, not very many at all - it was a ghost town much like any outpost in Propecies is now.

In addition to that, that very screen shot proves that not everyone is looking for or desires to run Ursanway. So in fact it is not impossible to PUG any area without running the build. Anyone who cannot do so simply needs to expand their friend list and/or find a new guild. This very thread and the dozens of others like it are a good spot to find such like-minded individuals, is it not?

4) UB takes no skill to use.
Conclusion - False. Just like any other CC build, some modicum of game strategy and teamwork must be employed in order to be successful. UB is hardly Godmode. All UB does is remove the necessity of Build Experimentation (BE) by providing a ready-made CC build with which to use. After this became such a hot button topic, I did a little experimenting with UB to see what all the fuss was about. I visited many different areas, including the Magni tournament, and played several different ways - from complete noob-way to using everything I have learned over the last three years playing PvE and PvP in the game. It is my conclusion that UB is hardly a panacea for p**s-poor game play and tactics, and bad teamwork. Does it make certain areas easier when playing with decent tactics - absolutely, however I have noticed the same thing when running CC builds, and forming balanced teams with other human players.

5) UB removes a basic mechanic of the game - skill building.
Conclusion - False. Just like #1, a player using UB has no effect on the concept of BE. All it simply does is remove the necessity of forcing players to BE if they do not desire to do so. It gives players another option of being able to go through areas they normally would not be able to get through otherwise without spending many hours changing what may be a favorite build of theirs, simply to advance through the game. Giving players an additional option to accomplish a goal is no different than an FPS giving players the "stealth" option or the "blow 'em all to hell" option of completing a mission objective. It would be the equivalent of allowing a pure healing character to win the Magni tournament simply by playing that characters strengths skillfully rather than having to completely change that character from what it is into something that is was not created to be. Since GW is a game designed for the casual player, and BE is not a casual mechanic, requiring many, many hours of time and trial and error, UB is the imperfect solution to that problem.

6) UB is overpowered.
Conclusion - True. There is no doubt, as elites go, UB is the most powerful. Sometimes, when I am looking at the elite list each of my characters have I wonder how some elites are granted that status, as they seem completely useless and I have often found similar non-elite skills to work better in some cases. However, UB certainly grants a lot of power and ability to play through the game. How does it do that? By removing the Time Played vs. Skill mechanic. If memory serves, GW was advertised as being a game geared towards the casual player and thus removing the notion that defines many MMOs of time spent in the game grants you more power than whose who have played less. UB defines that concept in a nutshell - no longer does a player have to spend countless hours pouring over skill lists and partaking of many, many frustrating trial and error runs before hitting on a good skill combo for an area. They can now pop on UB and head out, with very little time spent and wasted. The better and best players - a game's core audience will use that ability to work out strategies and learn from the experience, thus using UB to eliminate the need for trial and error and thus save precious game playing time having fun and advancing through the game. The bad players will always be bad, and UB has little effect on that concept, therefore has little bearing on the matter at all.

In the end, the only question becomes: Is UB gamebreaking? After eight months, the answer would have to be no. There are four million people playing - GW has redefined the genre and is the first MMO to seriously give WOW a run for the money. Players devote countless hours to playing the game, enjoying the game, and helping others in the game. UB has not slowed down the GW player base one bit.

Hanok Odbrook

Abedeus · Feb 09, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

1) It's true, that elite missions are no longer elite. Even my friend admitted, that she's a noob and Ursan is the only way she will make it through DoA.

2) UB did hurt prices. Did you notice, that Armbraces were 4-8 ectos less a month after UB appeared?

3) Sure it didn't kill. It just made everyone from ,,learn to play the class, then go with cookie cutter team'' to a ,,grind the hell out of title until your head explodes, then you MAY join us''.

4) It doesn't take any skill. You run to a mob in 4-6 ursans and spam 1-2-3 skills.

5) It did remove. I don't know what the hell did you write about, but if team needs 6 players with 1 skill and 2 monks (WoH, LoD or HB - wow, 3 types of monks...), it removed the need of building a team build.

6) It is overpowered, no denying the fact.

And no, in GW doesn't play 4 millions players. Just 4 millions copies were sold, of all games. So if everyone bought all chapters, it's just 1 million. And not everyone is playing - I don't know, maybe the half of those people. It's around million, if for example each person has 2 games. But then again, some players have 2 accounts. So, as opposite to WoW, where accounts can get frozen, buyed copies =/= active players.